Talk:Cherry Poppin' Daddies/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

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Starting to review the article based on Wikipedia:Good article criteria:

1. Well-written: (a) the prose, spelling and grammar are acceptable. (b) the lead section is fine. should be boosted. Per Wikipedia:Lead section, "the lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview of the article." Specifically, the "The band spent most of the 1990s touring extensively and recording, with their self-produced, ska-influenced third album, 1996's Kids on the Street, earning distribution by Caroline Records and appearing on Rolling Stone's Alternative Charts." does not do justice to the 1988–96 history sections.

2. Factually accurate and verifiable: I have left some notes below. Many of the references appear to violate WP:LINKVIO but I don't see where in the GA criteria this is addressed so I have brought it up in the general sense below at Talk:Cherry Poppin' Daddies#Linkvio. There are numerous other sources available like Google News.

3. Broad in its coverage: Includes standard sections on history of band, style, influences, discography, members.

4. Neutral: Fair and balanced. Explains positive and negative criticisms of the band.

5. Stable: No evidence of instability.

6. Illustrations/Sound clips: The images are ok. However, the sound clips do not meet the requirements of Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline. Specifically, each File page should have "A separate, specific rationale must be provided each time the [sound clip] is used in an article. The name of the article the [sound clip] is used in must be included in the rationale." Currently all the sound clips are used in multiple articles but separate rationales are not provided for each article. The rationale can also be augmented by listing who specifically the copyright holder is (ie. the source).

Signed --maclean 01:56, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Even though I added the sound clips, I'm beginning to think they're frivolous. Obviously the big singles deserve a place in the article, but the other ones I added simply for the illustration of the band's multi-genre approach. I can do what's asked of them (provide rationale, copyright information), but unless I'm wrong, it might be better off to remove them altogether. Skibz777 (talk) 05:40, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

I consider them optional. I'm generally not a fan of non-free content but they do have valid rationale attached to them in describing the music. No amount of writing will adequately describe the sound of the band as a sound clip will. As long as each one kept here strictly follows the Fair Use criteria it should be fine. maclean 06:39, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Notes as I review...

• "Formation" 1st paragraph - 2 cites provided:
  • "The Cherry Poppin' Daddies' genesis began when singer/songwriter Steve Perry moved to Eugene, Oregon in the early 1980s." - unable to verify early 1980s or the link between Perry's move with formation of CPD which seems to occur years later.
  • no mention of Binghamton in either citation
  • "relocated to the Northwest to enroll in the University of Oregon" - unable to verify that the reason for Perry's move was solely to enroll in UoO
• "Formation" 2nd paragraph - 2 cites provided:
  • Miami Music does not address "Perry's disillusionment" - it should probably be cited to the rockwired interview.
  • Why use the Alan Sculley quote? Why is it necessary? Who is Alan Sculley? It appears to be a commentary posted on a fansite [1]
• "Formation" 3rd paragraph - 3 cites provided:
  • unable to locate "The Iron Men of Leisure" or the quote "a sexy name that swings" or comparison to "Love Battery" in cites
    • (found Love Battery cite, but it's in the opinionated words of the reviewer instead of a statement on behalf of the band. Can't find "sexy name" quote...I know it exists, but removed it for now. Working on 'Iron Men'...)(Nabbed "Iron Man" cite)
      • There are a similar quotes in "The Rocket magazine" article and the "National Catholic Reporter" article - but not exact.
• "Early years" 1st paragraph - the "The Official Cherry Poppin' Daddies Biography" reference (currently cite #18) is a dead link. Could be replaced with the "Cherry Poppin' Daddies Official Bio, c. 2006" reference (currently cite #1).
• "Early years" 2nd paragraph - "The community backlash from the supposedly liberal college town was fierce" - tone this down. Members of the community protested, not "the community" or "the town".
• ?"Early years" 3rd paragraph - ""The Bad Daddies", "The Censor Shippin' Daddies" or simply "The Daddies", though retaining their full title while traveling abroad.[18]" unable to locate this in the provided citation: Skazaam.
• "Early years" 4th paragraph - I don't consider "Daddies bio on Last.fm" (current cite #22) to be a reliable source. It appears to be an editable website that claims Wikipedia (and specifically this article) as a reference. Please find a more independent reference to source the first sentence.
• "National touring" 1st paragraph - unable to verify "upwards of 200 shows a year"
• "National touring" 2nd paragraph - no citation. Please tell me which reference the transition of their stage show in the first sentence is from, as well as the description of Rapid City Muscle Car in the last sentence.
• "mainstream exposure" 1st paragraph - "1997 Hot Modern Rock Tracks" is a weak reference; It may be acceptable, but it is weak. Ideally WP is looking for secondary sources. Interpreting a chart to source "ska punk had broken through" is using the chart as a primary source. Something more authoritative referencing an article from a music magazine (like Rolling Stones) saying "ska punk had broken through".
• "mainstream exposure" 1st & 4th paragraphs - The "Oregon's Sugar Daddies? Oregon Offbeat(s) Network." reference (currently #34 & 43)appears to be a geocities fanpage. I don't think this meets reliable sources. Is there something better to source the info to?
  • Hmm...I might be wrong, but I don't see it as a fan page. It's not actual press/publication, no, but it seems to be a some what legitimate small-time/hometown interview with Perry (he appeared to do a lot of online-only interviews in the late 90s). The website itself seems to be dedicated to local Oregon culture. If you disagree, I can find other sources.
• "mainstream exposure" 2nd-last paragraph - if "all swing bands sound the same".[45] I cannot find this quote in the reference provided (drdrrew.com interview)
• "mainstream exposure" 2nd-last paragraph - what is this reference ('Cherry Poppin' Jerks')sourcing? Just reference the San Jose Mercury News article it is quoting, rather than the www.7thsign.com site.
• "Soul Caddy" 3rd paragraph - can a citation be provided for the "audience misconceptions" analysis? and the "Soul Caddy ended up being a commercial failure" conclusion
• "Susquehanna" 1st paragraph - 1 citation, Citing IMDb has been the subject of debate. It certainly has a place in the external links section but using it to source content is best avoided. Please show where the "MySpace announcement" and "website redesigned" info came from.
• "Susquehanna" 1st paragraph - 0 citations, please provide a citation for the "the album delved into flamenco, bossa nova, Latin rock, reggae and soca..." analysis and the "Reviews of the album were again mixed..." sentence
• "Musical style" 2nd paragraph - I don't see where in the cite provided ('A Not So Cheery Cherry Daddy' www.virginmegamagazine.com) where it says "Steve Perry has acted as the sole songwriter..."
• "Musical style" 2nd paragraph - ends with 3 citations, where does the "According to Jason Moss in regard to the band's songwriting process..." sentence come from? and the contrast with Mr. Bungle and Fishbone?
• "Musical style" 3rd paragraph - ...and Duke Ellington as their primary influences[12]" - Ellington is not mentioned in that citation. Does this come from some other reference?
• "Musical style" 3rd paragraph - which reference picked up on the "heavy distortion" and "faster tempos"? Faster than what? is this a comparison to something slower?
• "Lyrical" 1st paragraph - which reference picks up on Jack Kerouac's influence on the band?
• "Lyrical" 1st paragraph - which reference analysis the music for recurring themes?
• "Lyrical" 2nd paragraph - 2 citations provided: one from 1991, the other 1997. Where is the analysis of Soul Caddy and Susquehanna coming from?

Conclusion

In accordance with GA procedure, I'm placing this on hold as the above points are worked out. --maclean 03:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

• Done to the best of my limited ability. Skibz777 (talk) 23:07, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
  

(The floor remains open to ANY other editors who wish to contribute at this time...any at all? Hello?).

• Thank you for responding to my notes so quickly. I believe this article meets the GA criteria. Moving on, while not part of the GA criteria, the citations can be formatted consistently using templates (like {{cite web}}). I also encourage further research into more reliable sources. Try to replace the references to the www.daddies.com website to more independent sources, as the official site can be considered promotional material. --maclean 01:45, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.